Cleaning up.

[Ophion2]

I may be a new face to your forums, but I am not new to the cheating scene. I come from a much larger cheating site - one that does not condone scamming of any form.

I can tell you now, disallowing crackers/fake logins would do nothing to your userbase. There are plenty of illegit ways of making game currency that have nothing to do with scamming. Nor do I ask that you constantly monitor where all the np, gp, gia gold, etc comes from: I simply suggest that you not advertise or promote the sale of scams on your forums. I think you also fail to acknowledge the size of the legitimate markets, through which quitting members and merchants make their sales.

In any case, I think your current policy drives away members more than it attracts. I am personally appalled by all the scam threads, and it is for that reason that I've made no attempt to leave the market and join your site. As an experienced official middleman and ex-mod of Sythe.org, I consider that your loss.

As for your MM's being untrustworthy, you're right, I'm too new to speak against them. However, I've seen far too much to be surprised, and you'll only have more trouble as your site grows. If your MM's, staff, and members have no moral objection to scamming in-game, it's not a huge leap to scam here as well. Try a sting sometime, see which trusted members will sell their forum account for a nice fee. After that, you can say you know them.

[Snakebite]

Go to different forum if you don't like the scammed gold.
I love scammed gold, I save 5$ a mill.

[Hodizzle]

While I don't particularly like the scamming aspect myself, I understand that it is a major part of the site. I would, however, like to see more trainers, bots, etc. and it would be nice to see those areas pushed a little more. Maybe with more programming contests or something, idk. I'd make some myself, but I'm programming-retarded.

[Ophion2]

"Go to different forum if you don't like the scammed gold."

That's fully my intention. But as a site that should want members, that doesn't seem like a great policy.

As I said before, "illegit" gold does not necessarily mean scammed, nor do people have to say where they got the gold, as long as it's properly labeled as "illegit". It won't make any difference to you and your price. I'm well aware that those who know how will CG it regardless, and call it AB'ed if they have to. That's something that's going to be a part of the game regardless of your decision here.

All I advise is that you remove the sale of CG's/fake logins/crackers, requests for them, the development of them, and the open promotion of them on your site. That includes posts saying, "Selling 100m all CG'ed," though, again, that's probably the smallest change.

Anyway, I've posted as much as I feel the need to. I'm curious to see if anything comes of this, as there seems to be mild agreement.

[PureDeceit]

I would have to disagree, simply for the fact that scamming is a legitamate part of cheating. Yes, it may piss off the people who fall for it, but in most cases it's their own fault. Sure, the people who promote scamming try to promote it in the most believeable way possible to get more users to fall for the scam, but either way there is always a way to prevent getting scammed. I.E. FLP's are never hosted on the site you're trying to log into (check your address bar); CGers are always on some obscure site that nobody has heard of (don't trust unknown sites); PW crackers are useless against a good, solid alphanumeric pass (make a stronger password); etc.

Besides that, if GG were to disallow the discussion of these things, theres a good change more users would fall for these kinds of traps. People like myself would PREFER it if people continued discussing scam methods, simply so I can keep myself safe from the newest scams. And, really, GG members who use said scam methods on other GG members usually end up banned from GG, so it's usually a one-time deal. The other methods of scamming, such as charge-backs or simply failing to complete a trade, are either avoidable through a trusted MM or unavoidable either way, so failing to discuss them here wouldn't discourage members to use these methods.

Call me naieve, but I like to believe that GG's staff members wouldn't 'sell out' their accounts just to make a buck, as Fortunato put it. Maybe everyone has their price, but I'd hope the ammount of money they would accecpt for something like that would be a lot more than a scammer would be able to make back. I mean, most of GG's staff has been around for YEARS, with their post count in the thousands. I can only imagine the ammount of time and effort these people have dedicated to the site.

Either way, I'm just a little UG member so I know what I have to say doesn't hold much weight, but it's my two cents.

[Toffie]

As long as the scamming is done on people outside of GG I couldn't care less. Cgers and the like are just other ways to hack, i mean you cannot really say a FLP is any worse then ABing.

If you have a conscience then you shouldn't bother at all with this stuff xd

[Ophion2]

"If you have a conscience then you shouldn't bother at all with this stuff xd"

I wouldn't have chosen the word "conscience", but that's kind of the point I've been making. Would you rather a trust an MM with one, or without?

Anyway, with it's current policy, what's to say you won't log into GG and get CG'ed yourself? I figure it's unlikely - admins have a habit of disliking the games they host, or else they wouldn't have time for the site - but it's not against the rules, so it wouldn't even take a corrupt admin to try it.

Because of the scams your site allows, I don't trust the site or its members. Even if I should, it just sends the wrong message.

[Tyler]

That's totally okay if you don't like it.
You have the choice to walk right out, at any time.

[Sejiru]

Ah I see you come from Sythe.org that explains a lot. Sythe.org inbred that bias into me as well, I still don't condone scamming and think it's disgusting it's done here. The only thing that makes me happy is how often members here get scammed

Sythe.org has it's own problems last time I checked that site was not nearly as active as it had been when I was active there. Especially in your GFX section which I was once an active member of which took me nearly a year to get rid of bias against C4D's you entire forum had an odd way of looking at things compared to other sites. But if you look around (If you were underground that is) you'd soon realize that we lack the programs and flair your site had with such things. Basically all we have are people who like scamming and if we don't indulge them they'll find other sites, we're just one of many. Sythe's policy of disallowing scamming is one of few (from what I've seen). With a small active user base as it is and constant flow between active and inactive we don't have the luxury of assuming nothing wrong would happen if we suddenly banned scamming and all things scamming related.

However the majority of active members here don't scam unless something happens to them such as losing a rank or getting made fun of too much because their childish and instead of respectfully leaving they think it's cool to try and go out WITH A BANG! For some odd reason I'll never understand those pathetic individuals however the staff is of a mainly solid background BECAUSE I believe more then half of us do not actually play the games or the only online games they play are not involved in the scam aspects (I for instance play Diablo II and thats it) in all likelyhood we may run into some MM problems but we'll deal with them accordingly if they don't do their job correctly seeing as their expendable. Their may not be a large amount of trustworthy members to serve as a MM but the least we can do is try to help those members engaging in trades here by providing them. At the very least with three people getting the story will be a simpler process since in most scenario's I can think of at least two would be telling the truth as opposed to the possibility of one person is lieing and one is telling the truth.

[Ophion2]

GFX? Durial was amazing, but it's gone downhill since he left. TDD seems to own the forum now, but I still think of him as the amateur he was when I first met him. Personally, I'm a brush whore and love it. They truly did never get rid of their "default only" bias, though. But yes, I'm from Sythe, and if I told you who I was, you'd probably understand why I posted this.

Sythe.org is a mess, but mostly because Sythe doesn't know or care much about his own site. The number of members they have doesn't make it easier, but I don't think GG is doomed to follow the same path even if it does grow.

If anything, Sythe should serve as an example to prove that scamming is not required to build a large site. Fagex allowed scamming, but was never even in the running to compete with its more respectable rival. In short, scamming does not = members.

Your site has a decent foundation; it may not own the runescape market, but is has a strong potential to capture the neopet market - which there's a lot of demand for, and no one I know of to fill it. I think your site will grow regardless of the choice you make in regards to this.