Should gays be allowed to marry?

[Bunneh]

Once again, however, Mrs. Kyo is confusing "natural" with "moral."

Penicillin isn't natural. But it has saved millions of lives.

However, your personal morals tell you that homosexuality isn't the "right" way to do things. Natural has nothing to do with it.

What if my personal morals told me that being black wasn't "right"? Or, better yet, that being left handed wasn't proper? Would you allow me to create laws which rob left-handed people of basic human rights simply because I believe that they are "unnatural"?

[Mrs. Kyo]

Then the question is what IS natural?

If something were created/born/spawned/popped out of somewhere, they would be made to be suitable for the certain operations. If not, it isn't natural, right?

If homos were natural, then....physically, they should be made to be able to withstand anal penetration.

[Bunneh]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Kyo

Then the question is what IS natural?

If something were created/born/spawned/popped out of somewhere, they would be made to be suitable for the certain operations. If not, it isn't natural, right?

If homos were natural, then....physically, they should be made to be able to withstand anal penetration.

No, that's NOT the question. The point is that natural doesn't matter. People have used unnatural things for a long time.

Do you wear clothes? Do you use contraceptives? Do you take medicine? Do you eat fucking fast food and drink soda?

All things that are "unnatural." Hell, by your definition, everything is "natural" - all things came from somewhere and are suitable to certain operations. That's the most general definition I've ever heard. Ever.

And you apparently don't know much about anal sex. People don't just die after having anal once. Seriously. There are many gay men (and even a few straight men) who regularly have anal sex without suffering any ill consequences.

And there are just as many straight couples who try sex and end up getting hurt somehow because they do something incorrectly.

So the question is not what is considered natural or not natural.

Rather, the questions are:

What do you consider "right" and "wrong"?

And:

Is it morally proper to limit the rights and actions of other consenting human beings based on our own opinions?

[Mrs. Kyo]

Hmmm....

But then, why get married and have sex when you can't have children that way? Aren't children supposed to be expression of love? What could be more glorious than producing children with your own strength?

[existingfault]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Kyo

Hmmm....

But then, why get married and have sex when you can't have children that way? Aren't children supposed to be expression of love? What could be more glorious than producing children with your own strength?

No, children have nothing to do with love. They're a way to carry on a species and pass on genes. I find childbearing pretty much the opposite of glorious, myself. I can contribute to society in any number of ways, all of which are tons better than introducing another crying, whining drain on society to the world.

Originally Posted by Fortunato

What if my personal morals told me that being black wasn't "right"? Or, better yet, that being left handed wasn't proper? Would you allow me to create laws which rob left-handed people of basic human rights simply because I believe that they are "unnatural"?

But I'm a lefty ... :(

In all seriousness, that's basically the only reason needed in this debate. What makes gays and lesbians any less deserving of basic rights than straight people? We all saw how this turned out with racism and sexism. I don't get why the world has to keep going in circles.

[Mrs. Kyo]

Marriage is basically a vow of love towards one another. Having children is the best expression of such love....

[Snakebite]

What the fuck.
Well I don't want kids, so does that mean I'll never know true love?

[Mrs. Kyo]

No....that's not what i mean. The best expression of love would be children... It's like a proclamation of your dedication and love to the other side..

[Snakebite]

Maybe from your view, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't think that's the best expression of love.

[Bunneh]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Kyo

Marriage is basically a vow of love towards one another. Having children is the best expression of such love....

That would be fine if that's ALL marriage was. If getting married simply meant getting a church to bless your relationship, no one would be complaining.

The problem is that the government gives tax benefits to people who get married, whether or not they have children.

If two people who are sterile get married, they will get the same marriage benefits as people who can have children or do have children.

Yet, gay people who choose to live together cannot get these same tax benefits.

Basically, the government right now is paying people to be straight and making it more difficult economically for gay people.